September 2010
Its an absolute joke although pretty indicative of the way Bodyboarding in SA is run. Each time a team needs to be selected the selection criteria is changed at the last minute. Why not set out a standard selection criteria which all riders understand so that at the end of the day there can be no gripes as to who qualifies and is selected and who does not. Whats the point of your riders spending money travelling aroiund SA doing contests if it has no bearing on the final selection. One bad heat and you out!!!!!!!!?????? Do the surfers have trails to go to world games??? Dont think so.
September 2010
The selection criteria announced by SABA at plett was that a team, (to be announced by the end of july haha) would be selected from plett results, past results and professional conduct. Now it has completely changed to a different system. Im not sure this one is going to give the best team. (o ya, Ive heard it was 1 development rider in pro and 1 in juniors but i am not at all sure if that is true?)
September 2010
Why bother sending any team if its not going to be competitive. Considering that the riders are going to have to pay for the trip themselves it would then be a total waste of money. I doubt if Australia will be sending development riders.
Jared HoustonSeptember 2010I personally think that list is a bit suss too.Specker should be on there.
I dont really care who placed above him on the Saba tour,he still supported it where possible and is the best,and should be on there along with Mccarthy.Alternatively open it up,Charge 100 bucks entrance fee and all proceeds go towards sending the team over.BANG
Ian
September 2010
Would there be a reason for the SA team having to select develpment riders? Is out government putting rules in place stating development riders need to be represented? This is pretty much the most prestigieous event you can attend, representing your country in the sport you've probably bled for. No time for inexpirienced riders "trying their hand" in the event! (no offence!) This is a time to select your best riders to represent YOUR COUNTRY!!!
I completly agree with MDB. What is the point doing the SABA tour if it means nothing in the end? Surely this is why we have a circuit, so that the riders who surfed in the different conditions and excelled will be in deserved high placings. The team should be picked from the SABA circuit rankings!
dirtysouthranga
September 2010
Firstly, selecting 9 riders for each division is kinda dof. It's not even a number that is good for heat draws? 5 and 4 or some weird version of man on man haha.
t really looks like putting the extra 1 rider in each division is a way to put in development riders. O ya, them and Derek. who is chairman of SABA. Weird how that works out.
Secondly, there is a reason you can't choose te team on SABA rankings. Lets be brutally honest. SABAs system of rankings is more of an attendance register than anything else. Take for example, Sasha, who is the best dropknee rider in SA by a long shot, but 8th on the rankings because of missing a few contests. Also juniors, lets be honest, not the best riders at the top either except for the top rider of course. who kills it.
Personally I think the best system is a committee desicion, taking into account past results, possibly votes from the provinces as well as the riders ability to act as a good representative of the sport in South Africa.
lyle
September 2010
2 ways of picking a side.
1.you have a committee who picks the best from SA. Regardless of where they been surfing, ie sasha & co. (overseas/travelers)
2. or you use the SABA ranking. Ja sure, maybe it looks like an attendance register, but if you make effort and are dedicated to go to all the events dont you deserve to be picked?? you paid out money to get there and surfed the best you could in each event. otherwise whats the point of having the SABA circuit?? this way, if sasha & co wants to make the SA side they will be at more events, thus making the SABA events tougher and more competitive and youngsters will have quality older guys to look up at and learn from, and so on.
(im not taking a dig at sasha its just his name was mentioned in the thread. so sorry if it seems i was!)
i think that we need to be like our rugby. if you play overseas you cant be selected. reason for this is because all our quality players will go over and our domestic league will become poor. you need you stars in the league to learn from and body boarding should be no different. so my vote, pick from SABA rankings..
September 2010
If it was not for guys competing on the local circuit there would be no SABA. Its the guys "attending" these events that make SA Bodyboarding happen.
Im not against the overseas riders qualifying to be elegible for the team providing of course they are competing on a regular basis and in most of the IBA contests. One cannot do one IBA contest and them claim to be an international rider and not do the SA events and then want to be picked on a basis of how good he is.
There has not been one SA side picked without controversy and this blame rests with the SABA committee who seem unable to make firm rules and then stick to them.
boogieslider
September 2010
do we select the best team or the guys that have the time and money to attend every competition? SABA is important, but not the be all and end all in life? maybe a system needs to be put in place where 3 out of 4 competitions count? or where local events (provincial champs etc) count for SABA points and the 4 Main events act like grandslams do on the IBA.)
I agree totally with MBD, SABAs way of choosing teams without a common standard is unprofessinal and I thinkit degrades the whole honour in making a team.
BillybusterSeptember 2010I think there are a few names that should be on there too but no offense to anyone but if i had a choice, my 9 riders to be considered would be (in no particular order):
1-Dan Worsley
2-Sacha Specker
3-Wes Fischer
4-Derek Footit
5-David Lee
6-Jared Houston
7-Mark McCarthy
8-Darren Halse
9-Mark Watts
craigtrilivasSeptember 2010I think the forum should be used as a guage for the team to be picked
We all know who is surfing sh*t hot right now and I believe that they should be the ones who represent the country, one shouldnt be selected on past results and reputation.
Sure nuff points and SABA rankings play a big part in making the decision but come now, alot of us surf with these top guys and can recognize whether or not theyr ripping or just surfing...u know?
Guys that are currently putting SA on the map in the other corners of the world should definatley make the grade.
I cant help but mention one Mr. Kruger who has placed very well in all comps ridden, why isnt his name on the shortlist?
Some of our guys are waaaay talented and should definatly be in the team, only they cant afford the 20K trip overseas.....thats whats holding us back IMO.
And ur right on the money about development riders, why the hell include them in World Champs event???
Government needs to open their eyes and wallets and fork out if they want results, not try to put a
Surfer
September 2010
first things first.. Billy, what do you know about bodyboarding? your a flow rider.. I personlly think the best team and riders for canaries, must be guys that surf reefs alot.. you cant take people that does spins and roll, you will probely get nocked in the first heat.. its about going big! if comp was in brazil, il just take natal riders haha jokes.. but seriously, if SA wants a shot to be big hits for this contest, you need guys that can handel and surf waves like that(even under pressure).. Well when it comes down to money.. who can pay, can go!
Pro riders
Jared Houston
Sasha Specker
Darren Halse
Wesley Fisher
Mark Mccarthy
Adam Morley
Derek Footit
Bjorn Coetzee
Ian Kruger
dirtbin
September 2010
Surfer wrote:
first things first.. Billy, what do you know about bodyboarding? your a flow rider
Billy is a masively experienced judge and mens rider. He knows bodyboarding, believe me
who the hell is bjorn coetzee?
The natal riders win year in, year out, on reefs and beachies from 1 foot to 10. If anything they would be best suited?
Spins and rolls make heats, not some doosh riding a reef into the channel.
Rant aside, it seems that the trials system is widely opposed, and a system taking into account every possible factor seems quite legit.
craigtrilivasSeptember 2010 Bjorn Coetzee is one of the Mossel Bay crew okes, surfs with Morley etc...
The oke has skills bra, he made the Province team first attempt, watch out!
In an ideal world our government (and big surf companies if they would actually grow a backbone!!!) would sponsor our country's best so that we could put our mark on this sport for the rest of the world to see.
PS: Billy Tenant knows bodyboarding trust me, the fact that he is a sh*t hot flowboarder is neither here nor there (although the man is know all over the world as a hella provicient flow machine)
September 2010
Amazing that there is absolutely no response from SABA to anything on this forum. Not response to sudden change of "rules". No response as to how people got "chosen" for trials.
lyle
September 2010
MBD wrote:
Amazing that there is absolutely no response from SABA to anything on this forum. Not response to sudden change of "rules". No response as to how people got "chosen" for trials.
maybe its because they dont know how the selection process works???
boogieslider
September 2010
haha, seriously though, I know some SABA high ups have seen this thread but no response.
Bjorn
September 2010
Dude! Who the HELL are you to call me a doosh!!?? You dont even know me man!! By the souund of it, you are the doosh mate!
SmTSeptember 2010Calm down guys!
Bjorn - I don't think he was attacking you personally.
Billy knows a lot, it just happens to be that he is better known for Flowboarding, this doesn't detract from his knowledge of who he thinks rips and he is entitled to his opinion.
No matter what happens, you will always have guys from Kzn saying Rider X from Kzn rips he should make it and guys from WP saying Rider X from WP rips he should be chosen. There is still no fool proof way to choose the team.
SABA don't have to respond, this is a public forum with no bearing on what SABA should or shouldn't do, nobody here has the power to demand a reply from the committee and they don't have to. That said, if you don't like the way it's being done, then don't vote them in, easy. You didn't get a chance to vote? Well then, make the effort to enter Trials, make the team and then go to S.A's and cast your vote. SABA have enough to contend with without having to worry about what some nameless/ faceless person out in cyberworld is ranting on about.
If you want government funding you have to have a certain number of development riders, easy answer, don't blame SABA.
As far as the proposed lists of riders, you guys need to look at so many variables, not just the guy who can rip in free surfs. Do you think any rider that hasn't been exposed to S.A champs should even be on that list, I don't think so! It's not just about the guy you saw busting out down at your local spot!
Anyway, starting to feel a bit like Spy, too much complaining!!!
pamjam
September 2010
Wow, quite a debate going on here!
Having gone to world games in 2008 - it was an awesome experience. From that experience, trials worked for me,2 years prior, they didn't. I don't think an SA team should be chosen just from 1 set of trials - everyone is bound to have bad days, the waves might also be bad and it is not fair to choose a team based on 1 day!I believe that SABA rankings should be used, but only as a guideline - as some people are not always able to make all the contests due to work or other commitments and they therefore only attend some of the SABA events every year. I think there should be a selection committee, of sorts, chosen each year who are responsible for selecting the SA team. The team should be chosen based on the year's performances (and not number of contests) and the riders ability to perform in pressure situations and in different wave conditions. These riders should also be respected by fellow bodyboarders and they should be the guys (and girls) who will represent the country with pride and bodyboarding talent.
Just my thoughts...
MJSeptember 2010I have read the posts with regards to the SA Trials selection. Comments made lead me to believe that some of you are misinformed with regards to the selection criteria.
One of the comments made........"Amazing that there is absolutely no response from SABA to anything on this forum. Not response to sudden change of "rules". No response as to how people got "chosen" for trials."
ST was right about the fact that this is a public forum and no response is necessary from SABA. If an official response is however required you could chanel it through your respective Provincial Chairman.
I would gladly offer up my time to explain the SA Trials selection criteria if you are willing to drop me a private message.
September 2010
"Misinformed" is what MJ says.
Here a few facts that lead to this thread.
An announcement /statement was made at the wedge contest regarding the selection criteria for the SA Team. It was said that SABA ratings and the Plett results would be used to pick the team. It was also said the team would be announced at the end of July. These are facts. Not sure then who is misinformed?
Why is the team /trials selection criteria not open and transparent for all the riders to see? How can a rider who has not ridden a single SABA or IBA event be picked as a trialist?
September 2010
MDB, why not take MJ up on his offer to hear what he has to say? Then you can post it for everyone to know?
I've been reading all the comments and rantings, and from all of it my conclusion is that there has got to be something that SABA Officials can offer as a statement for what's gone on? Surely they'd want everyone to know?
My 2 cents of what I do know about competitions - just to put a few peoples perspectives in place is this:
9 people? That is the minimum number of riders for a "Round Robin" Format - Doesn't sound like a sucked up number when you put that out there - 3 heats of 3 riders each riding in 3 rounds, that gives each rider the chance to compete against all the other riders in the trials. It also allows for a BAD HEAT, and opens up the results to top 2 of 3, which has always been the way the SABA Winners have been Crowned at the end of the year? 50% of the tour counts plus 1 comp - eg: 8 Tour comps would mean that 50% is 4, so 5 Results out 8 would count.
That said, in simple terms, why could this not have been explained earlier???? It may not have been accepted as THE explanation but surely does put to rest the idea of a thumb sucked Selection Process!
The other Issue was that the Team was to be selected from the results at the Wedge Classic? Surely 1 contest can't be used as the selection process - heard it was SABA Results up until and including the Wedge Classic.
Maybe it is being misinformed???
Did anyone know that the ISA Bodyboard World Games was never a confirmed event? And that the process SABA was putting in place and working on as they went, was to ensure the best selection process, until the event was finaly confirmed?
Looking more and more like being misinformed???
Did anybody consider the Selection Criteria that SASCOC undertakes to ensure a measure of development and transformation in the sport that they are to award National Colours to Represent the country on a World Stage?
These are points that I have yet to see brought up, and until I know the full details, I'm with MJ???
Knowing the full story before passing judgement is way better than just venting for the sake of being heard? There are a lot of very good points on this forum about clarity of the selection process and who everyone thinks should be on the trials. 1 thing I do love is the amount of support shown to our bodyboarders that are travelling, but I do support the locals too, and I think it was a bold/daring move not to include the internationals in the Trials... however... how does one select the best Trial Riders from the guys that are competing abroad and leave the local tour competitors with no chance? How does the local tour survive? These are hard questions to answer, and I'm sure glad it's not my decision!
Anyhow, the ISA Bodyboard World Games is now off until further notice due to lack of government support from the Spanish Government, but plan to push for 2011. Let's hope it happens and the SABA Committee get to read all these comments and take it into account for their Selection Process!
Good luck to all you guys at SA Champs - Sun Coast Beach - hope you get some crazy East Swell pull into DBN so we can get some good photos from the event...
Good times ahead
craigtrilivasSeptember 2010 Hello Morpheus
lyle
September 2010
totally agree with your post morph. thanks for all the clarity. love it
Scarecrow
September 2010
Very interesting debate and one that I'd like to see clarified. I don't compete and I don't know the format/setup for the circuit and selections, but it would be interesting to know how SABA selects our "elite" riders to compete on the international front.
I know that in the UK on the British Tour, they use a format where specific events carry points ratings for the results. Each of the selected events then carries a specified number of points and these are allocated to each rider according to your position in that particular contest (500 points for 1st place and then it decreases from there). The British Nationals is then taken as an IBA 'Grand Slam' type event (i.e. double points). Riders accumulate points throughout the year based on their results and a formal leaderboard is kept and the results published online. At the end of the ciruit, the leader gets entry to a Grand-slam IBA event (Pipe, Confital, Sintra etc) plus a £500 contribution towards travel expenses.
Perhaps SABA could operate on a similar kind of basis, for example where local contests get a low points ranking (maybe 50 for first, etc), larger contests get a medium points ranking (say 100 for first, etc) and the major events get high points rankings (say 200 or 250 for first, etc). Riders can then accumlate points throughout the year based on the events that they attend based on their performances. At the end of the circuit, the best riders should have accumulated sufficient points to be at the top of the rankings. SABA could even build in a component for taking into account international events (perhaps 1.5x the usual points).
Just a thought!
lyle
September 2010
i like they way you think scarecrow!
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